HAS Interview

The Hampstead Authors' Society

Zsuzsanna Ardó:Variations On a Life

– in conversation with Thelma Ruby about her show, That’s Entertainment and her book Double or Nothing.

Zsuzsanna Ardó: What triggered the writing of That’s Entertainment and Double or Nothing, both of which are based on your life? Two what degree are the two connected? Is the show based on the book?

Thelma Ruby: Apart from the fact that stories of my life make up both the play and the book, they are not in any way related.

ZA: Let’s start then with the book – how did it come about?

TR: My wonderful late husband, Peter Frye, had a rich and varied and fascinating life. He was amazingly creative in all spheres, he was a leader both in thought and deed – he was endlessly fascinating to live with. Four and a half years before he died he suffered a stroke (it is all in the book) that left him very disabled. He lost completely the use of his left arm and hand, and fifty years before he had been left with use of only three fingers on his right hand as a result of his wounds in the Spanish Civil War. He could use his left leg, but he walked with difficulty and needed a wheelchair. Although he was remarkably brave and inventive after the stroke, he was severely restricted. And it was heartbreaking for me to watch such a man spending so much time just reading or watching TV.

One day I said, "You have had such an interesting life, why don't you write your autobiography?"

ZA: How did he respond to your idea?

RT: He replied after thinking abut it: "Well, maybe I will if I can call it Diary of Failure." When I exclaimed "How could you think of yourself as a failure after all you have achieved?" he replied: "I think of all I should have achieved. It was not always my fault, sometimes I didn't get the chances, but I did not realise my potential. And I think many people would empathise with that!" Of course I said: "No way would I agree to your calling it Diary of Failure."

ZA: But later he changed his mind.

RT: Later he said, "I will agree on one condition: that you join with me and make it a joint autobiography." I said, and I meant it: "My life hasn't been anything like as interesting as yours". "Let's sit down with a tape recorder and find out" he said.

ZA: So how did you go about the writing the joint autobiography in practical terms once the joint decision was made to write it?

RT: We took three years to record the book. There was enough material there for five books. We had just started to edit it, when Peter died. I felt I couldn't go on by myself – it had been such a close collaboration. But after a few months I thought to myself, "I can't let all Peter's wonderful stories crumble into nothingness, I owe it to his memory to get our book published". It took me another year to edit it, and I know I did things Peter would not have agreed to.

ZA: How did you structure the book?

RT: It was not recorded in order – just as we thought of different events and feelings. I think Peter would like to have left it freewheeling like that, but I preferred to organise it seriatim.

ZA: And the editing process?

RT: I reworked most of what I had said because I write better than I speak. But I hardly had to change a word of Peter's as he was able to speak so brilliantly. He was very famous in Israel so the book was first translated into Hebrew and published in Israel. A lot more stories could be included in the book in the Hebrew version, because it is a very compact language. In English I had to cut a lot more.

ZA: How long did it take from the idea to the published book?

RT: From beginning the recording to getting the book finally published in English took nine years!

ZA: What is the story behind the play which is also about your life?

RT: I wouldn't be bold enough to call That’s Entertainment a play. It is a performance.

ZA: How strong is the connection between the joint autobiography and the performance of your life?

RT: The performance evolved with no reference to the book. It came about like this. I was on a Jewish Heritage trip in Morrocco and on the last day in Marrakesh there was a party to say farewell. I was asked to do something to entertain them. I said: "I'm sorry. When I was much younger I used to do cabaret and I would have had something I can do but I have forgotten all that". When I was asked to think again, I remembered my 'party piece', Peter Patter, which I still do in my show, and I agreed to do that with the actor Robert Rietty, who was also in the group. Then I searched my memory for something else, and remembered that while Peter was alive sometimes we would tell friends stories of all the unusual things that happened to us as we were touring the world, performing a play based on the life of Golda Meir. So I told them at the party. As soon as I got home, two ladies from the group phoned to ask me to talk to their groups. I agreed, and put those Golda stories at the end of other stories about my life, and created a lecture.

The lecture was recommended from group to group, and I did it many times.

It is a very inspiring story of how, through Peter, I became very friendly with a most marvellous Indian dancer, a lady called Mrinalini Sarabhai. This is one of the stories I had to cut from the book! Whenever I can, I go to Ahmedabad in Gujarat to stay with her. A few years ago Mrinalini and her family added a beautiful open air theatre for this large city to the complex of schools and buildings where they live. And when they heard I was coming, they begged me to perform in their new theatre. I said: "I am sorry, I have nothing I can perform in India. I have only a lecture about an English Jewish girl who has spent her life in Western theatre – no similarity at all with your theatre." "We'd love it!", was the reply.

ZA: So how did you rework the talk into a performance?

So I thought I must make it somehow palatable to that audience, and decided to do the lecture with songs from shows I have been in. I phoned back: "Would you be able to find a piano and a pianist who can play my sort of music?" "Impossible!", came the reply. So I got my pianist to record the backing music and did the show like that – they had such a good sound system that after the performance a critic came round to see me, and looked everywhere in the wings for the piano!

ZA: Did the structure evolve then further?

RT: Since then I have performed many times with the songs, adapting and changing the script, and when you talk about sitting down to write a play... well, of course I wrote down what I wanted to say, and I have the scripts going back to the early days. And they have constantly changed with the years. Not in a major way. I eventually hit upon the structure I wanted to follow and which seemed to work.

Only rarely have I had the pleasure of working with a live pianist. And only fairly recently have I found Ruth Leon, who has helped to direct me, and tighten the script a lot. With her help, I have cut drastically the section about my belief in the importance of theatre, for instance, and the part describing Peter. I have done the show always for special, one-off performances all over Britain and in America, but for the first time, now I am doing a real run of the show in a real theatre.

I am very lucky to have found this pianist, Jonathan Williams, with whom I am working for the first time, and who gives a most important extra dimension to the performance. I am lucky to have inherited the genes to be still kicking up my legs at 82! And after yesterday's half-page review in The Times, I feel my cup runneth over.